Ryan Garry Talks Law on KQRS Gorman in the Morning Show
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[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Gorman in the morning. Minnesota’s 92 Kqrs The clash. Should I stay or should I go? At one time, the clash was the kind of music that would piss your parents off. And now, of course, parents are like, I love the clash. We were just discussing the fact that you’re supposed to annoy your parents with your musical choices. I’m having that conversation with Wendy Mayberry and now Ryan. Gary has joined us in studio. Ryan Gary, criminal defense attorney. Good morning sir.
[00:00:22] Speaker 2: Good morning Steve.
[00:00:23] Speaker 1: A well-dressed member of society. You walk in and suddenly we’re like, man, we’re underdressed.
[00:00:27] Speaker 2: You know, Steve, I got to be in court.
[00:00:29] Speaker 1: So that’s how that works.
[00:00:31] Speaker 2: Yeah. Next time I’ll wear my Allison chain shirt.
[00:00:33] Speaker 1: Attaboy.
[00:00:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, with some cutoffs. So there we go.
[00:00:36] Speaker 1: You got. You gotta look the part.
[00:00:38] Speaker 2: You gotta. Unfortunately, we were we.
[00:00:41] Speaker 1: Were talking earlier. We we had a little thing, we call it. Thank you very much. And we talked about our favorite legal movies, law movies, courtroom movies, all that. And we all gave our top three. Generally speaking, is there anything that’s farther removed from reality than courtroom dramas?
[00:00:59] Speaker 2: You know, some of it is real. I was listening to that, Steve. And you know what movie is somewhat realistic is, is the Lincoln Lawyer with Matthew McConaughey. All right. And yeah, it was it didn’t get much credit or praise, but that one somewhat realistic. But rider was saying a few good men. And I’ll tell you what’s really unrealistic is I think it’s Tom cruise cross-examining like the physician about this rag that was in the, you know, decedent’s mouth. Oh, right. Sure. And he gets some point across, and then he turns to the jury and basically makes like a closing argument, right? Like why that’s relevant to the case. Okay. Like that’s not real.
[00:01:42] Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
[00:01:43] Speaker 2: You’re just like
[00:01:44] Speaker 1: But when I watch a movie or a TV show about a band, I can’t watch them because they’re all just so complete. That’s not what this is like at all. Yeah. And but I can only imagine with something you’re in your world, it is so attention to detail and procedural. And so, for lack of a better word, a lot of it boring as hell is that. That’s not unfair to say, is it?
[00:02:04] Speaker 2: No, no, I mean, you know, 90% of it is the background work. And what you see on TV is the combination of, you know, years of work, obviously, sometimes not years. But but, you know, some of it’s realistic. I mean, the courtroom drama and you know, my Cousin Vinny, how many fingers you holding up now, grandma? You know, something like that. Sure. Some of that’s realistic. I mean, it’s just exaggerated a.
[00:02:29] Speaker 1: Bit, right? Ryan, Gary is with us in studio. So you weren’t always immediately as a kid, you weren’t like, I’m going to be a trial lawyer. I’m going to be a defense attorney. You actually correct me if I’m wrong. There was a bit of a radio career at one point.
[00:02:42] Speaker 2: Steve. I was in radio. I, I worked out in Denver. I think it was 93.7 the peak and I couldn’t I graduated college, my, my now wife and I moved out there and I couldn’t get a job. So I stapled my resume to a two by four and brought it up to the station. There you go. The guy, the manager called me and said, that’s unique. Do you want a job? I said, okay. So yeah, yeah, it was great. And so I worked for Howard Stern out there for a while and it was a great job. It was a, it was a station kind of like this morning show. And it was a blast. It was a really fun time in my life. You know, I mean, radio is a fun industry and so.
[00:03:27] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it’s not a job really. It’s just a thing you do. Yeah, yeah. And so what? So. Well, then what makes a young man like you on the way up? Go? You know what I think? I think I’m going to go get that law degree, and I think I’m going to be a guy in court.
[00:03:38] Speaker 2: Well, I was working out in Denver, and Howard said some things about Columbine. The next day, Howard was fired.
[00:03:47] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That’ll that’ll happen. Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker 2: The whole station got turned into a Spanish station.
[00:03:51] Speaker 3: Oh, no.
[00:03:52] Speaker 2: And I don’t speak Spanish. And I’m like, all right, so move.
[00:03:56] Speaker 1: Back. Radio’s not quite as stable as I might have thought.
[00:03:59] Speaker 2: No, no. And so my wife is from Minneapolis. So we moved back here and I had sort of always wanted to be a lawyer. And I grew up a fighter. I mean, you know, I like fighting and I like battles and I like combating, and I like arguing and negotiating and all that.
[00:04:15] Speaker 1: There it is.
[00:04:16] Speaker 2: And so I went to law school and found out that everything but criminal law in law is boring, right? It.
[00:04:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[00:04:25] Speaker 2: It just, it just is criminal law is sort of like the rock and roll of the music industry. So I decided to do that. And here I am, let’s see, 22 years later.
[00:04:35] Speaker 1: And it’s rolling along.
[00:04:37] Speaker 2: Rolling along.
[00:04:38] Speaker 1: If, if you are, if you’re, if what’s the first most popular question? People say like, hey, man, let me ask you this. Like, not, not, not a prospective client, but just in conversation, you’re at a cocktail party, you’re at a, you know, hey, what are some of the things people are usually the most interested to know about.
[00:04:57] Speaker 2: How could you possibly represent that person?
[00:04:59] Speaker 1: That’s what I was going. I mean, I’ll just say obviously it’s I am a such a firm believer that it’s the most important thing is that everybody gets an adequate defense. That’s one of those things that makes us us as Americans. Right. That said, obviously you in doing that job in fulfilling constitutional obligations and responsibilities and, and that you have to find yourself with some unsavory people along the way. Yes. You know, and so is that I imagine as a young attorney, this is something everybody goes through just kind of finding your own. How do I handle it? How do I negotiate and navigate those initial conversations?
[00:05:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, as a criminal defense lawyer, I mean, you start off getting every case you can possibly.
[00:05:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
[00:05:43] Speaker 2: And so, you know, over the years, I’ve represented, you know, people charged from assault to murder in both state and federal court, unsavory types, you might call them Hells Angels and then celebrities and things of that nature. Yeah. But it’s really it’s not always a win. It’s you ask what is a win? Sometimes a win is saving someone from prison. Sometimes a win is getting a case dismissed. Sometimes a win is getting a guilty verdict. Sometimes a win is convincing. The prosecutors say yes instead of no. So that’s what it is. But you get hardened by those cocktail, you know, type questions.
[00:06:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Speaker 2: How could you possibly represent that person? Well, I’ll tell you, why don’t you come when you need me? And then yeah, that same question.
[00:06:28] Speaker 1: That’s exactly right.
[00:06:29] Speaker 2: So.
[00:06:30] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and that is such an important thing. I mean, everybody deserves the right to a real defense. So Wendy, the first thing you said.
[00:06:39] Speaker 3: Do you ever ask them if they did it or not?
[00:06:42] Speaker 2: That’s a really good question, Wendy. I try not to because halfway through the conversation, I’ve pretty much got it figured out.
[00:06:53] Speaker 3: If they did or not.
[00:06:53] Speaker 2: Yeah. The scariest cases are the ones where you really believe they had nothing to do with it. And then, you know, all is on the line. The worst possible thing that could happen in this society is some poor, innocent man or woman or whatever goes to prison for a crime they didn’t commit. We know from statistics that the Innocence Project has acquitted something like hundreds and hundreds of people of crimes they didn’t commit after serving decades in prison. So But do I ask that question? Not really. Sometimes they just blurt out and tell me and I’m like, all right, that makes it easy. Okay.
[00:07:30] Speaker 1: Now I know where we all sit. You you’ve worked with you mentioned the Innocence Project. I mean, that’s another thing too, that it’s easy to say like, oh, criminal defense attorneys, but but to your point there’s nothing worse than an innocent person. No, better three guilty, better 100 guilty people walk than one innocent person. Go away. That’s right. It’s how I look at it. I mean, that’s like the worst thing that can possibly happen. And so you’ve certainly been a part of cases. You’ve probably gotten great results. You know, people that work at the Innocence Project you’re working with. I mean, tell me about that part of your career.
[00:08:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. So I serve on a board for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and other folks that created the Innocence Project are on that board. Barry Scheck and stuff. And yeah, it’s that is truly what quote unquote the Lord’s work type thing.
[00:08:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[00:08:20] Speaker 2: Is going in and trying to uncover a case that some poor person is serving 25 years to life in. And something comes up, something comes up, some DNA pops up, or some witness comes forward and says, I lied back then. And they, they pressured me to lie. And that stuff happens all the time. Yeah. You know, police officers and people investigate crimes and very necessary for the society can elicit answers that aren’t necessarily true. Sure, sure. Yeah.
[00:08:54] Speaker 1: That’s got to be a pretty rewarding thing. I would imagine when you see somebody get when justice is finally served, as in, hey, you, you shouldn’t be in here. Yeah. You can’t buy those years back for somebody, but at least it’s, it’s giving them a chance to get some of their life back.
[00:09:09] Speaker 2: I would imagine I have never been a part really connected with the Innocence Project. But yeah, those lawyers, I mean, but I mean, my goodness, I mean, they, you know, spend years on those cases and literally save someone’s life.
[00:09:22] Speaker 1: So longest case you ever had from the minute you were asked, hey, can you represent me to getting a result, whatever the result was. But like, because I, you know, if I, if I watch suits. Yeah. And boy, do they work through those cases quick.
[00:09:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Speaker 1: They’ll settle a multinational fraud scheme in about 14 minutes. And I something tells me it’s not quite that quick. Generally speaking.
[00:09:45] Speaker 2: It’s not. It depends on the gravity of the case. A big case. You know, I tried a conspiracy to commit first degree murder case up in Anoka with another lawyer many years ago. And from start to finish, I don’t know, three years. Jury trial was three weeks. In January, this guy allegedly hired a contract killer to kill his wife.
[00:10:07] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
[00:10:08] Speaker 2: And the killer wasn’t a killer. He was an undercover FBI agent. Oh, boy.
[00:10:13] Speaker 1: Okay, that does sound like a Netflix show. Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:16] Speaker 2: But in some cases, yeah, they take years.
[00:10:19] Speaker 1: Three weeks in a of a jury trial. That’s I mean, I, I’ve, I’ve, I was, I’ve been a part of two jury trials. I mean, I mean, as sued for one and then a witness and a attempted murder thing, you know, is on the stand. One was a day and one was like eight days. And the eight days felt like five years. Yeah. Three weeks where you and you have to be on top of every detail, every, every emotion. You’re, you know, you’re, you’re kind of a conductor, almost like making sure it’s kind of going that way. I just imagine it’s exhausting, man.
[00:10:52] Speaker 2: It’s exhausting. Yeah. And depending on the case, it’s like I just took a year off my life kind of thing. But yeah. Yeah, but it’s fast. Yeah. I mean, because when you’re in fight mode.
[00:11:03] Speaker 1: Right?
[00:11:04] Speaker 2: Sure. Fight or flight mode. When you’re in fight mode, it’s like boom, boom, boom. Wow. It’s very quick.
[00:11:09] Speaker 3: Then you’re built for that. You’re born a fighter, right?
[00:11:11] Speaker 2: Yeah. It’s it’s fun.
[00:11:13] Speaker 3: Is that your favorite part? Like all the prep part is when you’re actually, like on in the courtroom.
[00:11:17] Speaker 2: Well, I like being in the courtroom and then getting a surprise where you look over at the prosecutor and they’re trying everything to hold their composure. That’s what I love. Oh that’s fun. That’s good. The witness says something that. Yeah, you know, they weren’t supposed to say or something.
[00:11:31] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[00:11:32] Speaker 2: You always get a gift in a trial. Like you get something that no one expected, right? It’s always to the benefit of the defendant.
[00:11:40] Speaker 1: Always.
[00:11:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Some witness. You know something. Something stupid.
[00:11:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You mentioned earlier about, like, sometimes DNA will pop up. Dna is not exactly as I mean, in our minds. If you’re just just again, movies, TV documentaries, edited a certain way. It’s like DNA is the ultimate slam dunk always. But it’s really not that clean cut.
[00:12:00] Speaker 2: It’s not. In fact, a year ago, I acquitted a guy who was not supposed to have a gun. So you understand what I’m saying? He had a particular record where you can’t have a firearm. Got it. And they charge this guy. This was up north and did a search warrant at his house. Dna was all over the gun, his DNA.
[00:12:20] Speaker 1: Right.
[00:12:20] Speaker 2: And he was facing, like, ten years in prison, so we went to trial. There was no offer on the case, went to trial. And I hired this anthropology professor from University of Indiana. And she came in and educated the jury that, you know, Tim, I’m sitting or Steve, I’m sitting across from you. I flick my hands at you. My DNA is on you right now. Oh, it moves through the air and she educated the jury that, you know, if I put my hand on the table, you come over and put your water bottle on where I put my hand. Your DNA’s.
[00:12:53] Speaker 1: On. Really?
[00:12:54] Speaker 2: So DNA has been found to go through vents in a room, and the person’s DNA is in another room.
[00:13:01] Speaker 1: Whoa.
[00:13:02] Speaker 2: Yeah. Crazy. So, anyway, the jury ate it up. Yeah. Acquitted the guy. Okay, good. On my theory of the case. Right. And so DNA sometimes makes a defendant look very guilty, but it really doesn’t mean anything.
[00:13:16] Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s endlessly. There’s a reason that every year on every streamer, there’s five new series about courtroom dramas. I mean, it’s just forever. What? Okay, one, what’s the one movie like? You’ll say, oh, no, I, I can watch it at any time.
[00:13:33] Speaker 2: Oh, man. You know, it’s pretty easy. I heard you talking about it earlier, Steve. I mean, it’s probably my Cousin Vinny.
[00:13:41] Speaker 4: That’s the one. Hilarious, right?
[00:13:43] Speaker 2: It’s so funny.
